tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387550.post115159702528486505..comments2023-07-01T08:55:59.065-05:00Comments on City of Brass: muslim citizens, not citizen muslimsAziz P.http://www.blogger.com/profile/11825546047253660903noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387550.post-1151793327854982032006-07-01T17:35:00.000-05:002006-07-01T17:35:00.000-05:00there are many points to your argument aziz, but, ...there are many points to your argument aziz, but, i would offer there are striking counter-examples to your post/neo-colonialism thesis: hindus and sikhs in the UK do <I>far</I> better than muslims and they are colonials (excluding ismailis who come from east africa). in fact, sikhs and muslim mirpuris ("pakistanis") are racially and linguistically and socioeconomically of about the same origin. in the netherlands moroccans have a serious adversarial relationship with the gov., but they were not colonial subjects, the hindus and blacks from suriname were, and they have few issues. in norway pakistanis are a serious problem, but pakistan was not a norwegian possession. simlarly, the kurds and turks in sweden and germany don't have to do with colonialism because these were not colonial nations (germany's colonies were taken away after world war I).<BR/><BR/>i will put the finger are 3 factors:<BR/><BR/>1) SES selection bias<BR/>2) diverse ethnic origins (there isn't one muslim ethnic group who syngerizes ethnicity and religion)<BR/>3) large number of native convertsRazib Khanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09555115542918519593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387550.post-1151793044980596762006-07-01T17:30:00.000-05:002006-07-01T17:30:00.000-05:00Your description of upper-class Muslims applies, i...<I>Your description of upper-class Muslims applies, if at all, to predominantly South Asian Muslims</I><BR/><BR/>no, it applies to arabs as well. additionally, african immigrants are among the most well educated in this nation, and many of them are also muslim. so you can't minimize this as a small subset. here is <A HREF="http://www.projectmaps.com/AMP2004report.pdf" REL="nofollow">immigrant skewed survey</A>. the % of converts is anywhere between 10-33%, depending on who you talk to, but they are <B>natives with deep roots in this nation</B> (despite any alienation because of racism).<BR/><BR/><I>Later immigration patterns have not completely mimicked the "brain drain" phenomena</I><BR/><BR/>yes, but a large extent they have not regressed back toward a peasant mean.<BR/><BR/><I>All of these facts are, in a sense, meant to attack the "model minority myth" that many wish to place on Asian/Muslim immigrant communities at the risk of disregarding those at the peripheries or those without adequate educational/financial resources to fight against government persecution</I><BR/><BR/>the inversion is turning muslim americans into opppresed victims instead of a predominantly upwardly mobile disproportionately college educated community, which is what they are.<BR/><BR/><I>If there is a difference between America and Europe that is a conscious reflection of the polity (and not just historical accident), is that every immigrant story in the US is put on a pedestal eventually.</I><BR/><BR/>over half of french citizens are not "root french." it is an immigrant country.Razib Khanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09555115542918519593noreply@blogger.com